Community Meeting - Minutes
26th January 2010

NOTES OF THE COMMUNITY MEETING HELD ON:

Date: Tuesday, 26 January 2010
Time: 7.00 pm
Venue: Action Deafness, Welford Road, Leicester

TRUSTEE REPRESENTATIVES:
Kevin Watts (Chair)
Colin Henson, Trustee
David Mumford, Trustee
Craig Crowley, Chief Executive
Eric Waweru, Treasurer
John Duddington
Roland Hilton

APOLOGIES:
Alison Hicking
Sally Hurman

IN ATTENDANCE:
John Lee (Interpreter)
Peter Shilston (Interpreter)

1. WELCOME (KEVIN WATTS)
   Kevin Watts welcomed attendees to the meeting and introduced Eric Waweru, who had recently commenced with Action Deafness as Trustee and Treasurer
2. FINANCIAL ISSUES (Eric Waweru)
   Eric Waweru introduced himself to the meeting. He explained that as he was new in post and as the Finance Officer had recently left Action Deafness, it had been difficult to obtain the necessary financial information to make a meaningful presentation. However, he would shortly, with the new Action Deafness Finance Team, look at:
   1. Action Deafness' costs in their entirety and identify which areas are funded and which are not and are therefore a burden to the company; over the recent past, reserves have been used to cover the costs of these activities, therefore, it is hoped that Action Deafness will be able to identify areas of income which will help to fund those services in the future.
   2. Overheads in order to ensure they are properly allocated to projects and contracts so as to ensure that all costs are covered; Action Deafness currently subsidises services that have not been fully costed.

The Treasurer will present to the next meeting a plan demonstrating how costs will be reduced over the next year in order to operate profitably in 2011/12. ACTION: EW

3. RELOCATION: THE FUTURE OF ACTION DEAFNESS AND USER GROUPS
   Kevin Watts stated the hope that a Working Group would be set up to look at the future for the deaf community. It was hoped that three User Group representatives would be able to meet regularly with two Trustees (Kevin Watts and John Duddington) and Action Deafness staff. The User Group representatives would then be able to feedback to relevant groups within the deaf community on the discussion and progress of the relocation. It was hoped that the Working Group would meet every three weeks, but more regularly if required.

   The responsibility of the User Group representatives' role on the Working Party was not underestimated; it was acknowledged that there were at least seven groups that needed to be represented, each group having individual needs. It was suggested that more than three User representatives would be needed to effectively discuss the future of the wider deaf community.

   David Sly: suggested that the Leicester Deaf Action Group might be the appropriate forum for such meetings in that representatives from all User Groups would attend and in that way their individual needs would be met and they could have meaningful dialogue every three weeks with the Trustee and staff representatives in order to make progress.
   

4. COMMUNITY MEETING – FURTHER QUESTIONS
   Kevin Watts referred to the Community Meeting which had taken place following the AGM on 12 January 2010. He stated that there were further questions that the deaf community wanted to put to Trustees but they had not been able due to time constraints. Therefore, Kevin Watts opened the meeting to questions.

Question: Is the building definitely sold? Are we moving in six months? What about the groups that currently use the building?
Kevin Watts: The building has not been sold as yet but it will be put up for sale and a ‘for sale' board will be placed outside, however, if an offer was made in the meantime, this would be considered. At the next Community Meeting Trustees will be able to advise of the value of the building.

Question: Why do we have to move within six months? Where will the Youth Club be located?
Kevin Watts: The move will be a difficult time for everyone. Action Deafness does not have an obligation to other areas, including Social Services, other than to deal with the lease contract. If Action Deafness does not relocate there will be absolutely nothing left. The move will realise the capital and enable Action Deafness to start again to get a better location and better building.

Question: There is a lot of competition for rooms, how much will it cost for room hire?
Kevin Watts: This is the sort of question you can bring to the Community Meeting.

Raymond Hocking: Where is Action Deafness getting the money from? Has a price been given for the building? Who is handling the sale of the building? Who is going to pay for the cost of the removal?
Kevin Watts: The property market is not healthy at the moment because we are in a recession. We are currently in discussion to try to find the best price we can for the building. Action Deafness will pay for the cost of the removal.

Comment: How can Action Deafness afford to pay if they have no money, is the money being spent, being wasted? The costs will have to be budgeted for.

David Sly:: Where are the Deeds to the building? Can each User Group receive a copy?
Kevin Watts: The Deeds will be available on display at the next meeting. They are currently stored with the bank and the solicitors have a copy. The point regarding copies of the Deeds can be brought to the next Community Meeting.

Derek Wicks: Can the O50s Club move into Action Deafness new premises with its snooker table, pool table, darts, etc? Can you ensure that there will be a car park and that it's near the hospital and football?
Kevin Watts: We need to discuss with everyone where we are moving to and the options that are available to us, what is suitable for us.

Question: If we rent this out, why don't you buy somewhere cheaper rather than continue renting?
Kevin Watts: We do not know at this stage whether the new building will be purchased or rented. We need to find a location first and then make the decision.

Austin Reeves: If you start renting somewhere, your capital will go down quite quickly. If you don't purchase a property the future will be more uncertain. It's better to buy.
Kevin Watts: This point will be noted and discussed at the next meeting.

Andrew Neal: I understand the process and the difficulties but if the building is sold, whether it's tomorrow or however long it takes one, two or three years, when it's sold we have to move out. What happens to Action Deafness? Where will they work from? If deaf people want an interpreter or to make contact, where is the office while you wait to move? If Action Deafness is going to buy somewhere and can't move in because of renovations, changing offices, fitting ‘phones, how will we make contact in that period? The situation needs to be considered so it can be as smooth as possible.
Kevin Watts: I don't have the answer, however, it is still very important to continue with deaf clubs and services.

Question: If we move are you looking at extending or reducing the size of the premises? We need to look for the right place and what is going to be suitable. I know deaf people say they want to have bingo for 100 people, I would like to see more and more people use it.
Kevin Watts: This is something for discussion at a future meeting.

Michael Broderick: About two weeks ago I saw your accountant, it was a different person. What happened to the previous accountant?
Kevin Watts: The accountant is different to the Treasurer. We do have a new Treasurer here, the former Treasurer resigned last September.
Comment: Is that because the organisation is full of fraud? As you know you are paying money to other charities and walking off, maybe it's a pay off somewhere and there is some deceitfulness going on and re-investing in different places.
Kevin Watts: Charities Law is strict goes through auditors.
Comment: Someone clever with the money is playing with the finances.
Kevin Watts: If that happens, as a Trustee I would have to pay back the money myself. That cannot be happening.

Question: Do you have insurance?
Kevin Watts: If we fiddled it we wouldn't be covered anyway. We sign off the accounts.

David Sly:: Three years ago when Craig took over he tried to streamline yet three weeks ago he said we had too much money and couldn't bid for project finding so the idea was to reduce those funds and spend it. The aim was to get grants for projects. Very successful we have lost our building; so that means we have to move. We are the same people, with the same CEO and the same Trustees. If they can't manage this situation how can we trust them to manage the new situation? They have not made a change, they are still spending with no. Can you trust them to continue?
Kevin Watts: I have to say I am disappointed with that comment; that says you don't trust me. We are trying our best to be proactive, to help you all have a good social life, a social club, good community sports, social club bingo; we want that to happen. Unfortunately three years ago Social Services cut our funding and that had a big effect on our finances, that was the biggest problem we faced when there wasn't the same amount of money coming in. I think you need to respect that to be the situation.

Ray Hocking: If you say there is no fraud or cheating going on, why can't you tell us where our money has been spent? We have been asking since last August and no one has been open. That's why there is no trust, there is suspicion, there is doubt.
Colin Henson: I have been a Trustee for less than two years, this is not a new problem that we are facing as trustees. There, is a fine group of Trustees and while Kevin is disappointed at the comment of Mr Sly, I personally feel insulted. If you were to realise the amount of time and energy that we have tried to give to this group of people to safeguard its interests you will be amazed. We don't want thanks or pay, we do it because we are committed to supporting something we all believe in. There has been no fraud or fiddling, there has been no slush fund there has been no pay off. Everything is audited and accounted for and it's a public record. It has been signed off annually and it's been registered. There has never been any concern raised whatsoever that there is anything other than truth in these documents; if there was do you think I would be party to it? I have my own integrity, my own reputation, my own professional ethics and I am more than disappointed. It makes me wonder sometimes if all the effort we are putting in is appreciated. Now this is my personal view, I am not speaking for the other Trustees. What we are trying to do is maintain an ongoing service and support for you all. You do have support, you do have the services. I have listened with interest and made a number of notes regarding what we hope to do and we hope to provide an improved service, a greater service and hope to have a seamless transition from this building into something you have had an input into and we want to involve you and listen and we are listening carefully we want to see things in a very positive light. Somebody talks about a room big enough for snooker tables and a dartboard and things of that nature, if we can accommodate it we are more than willing to try to do that. Somebody talks about what's happening to staff, we have to look at that extremely carefully with you. Now at the moment we are not moving forward, we are going over the same ground time and time again and we have to draw a line under that, not ignore what you are saying, we have to involve you and there is something very good coming out of this and it's going to be a greater level of involvement and trust. But we can't respond as quickly sometimes as we could. We are subject and dependent upon third parties. The building has not been sold. We are getting a proper valuation to get the maximum we can out of this asset. There will be interested parties. There will be some who want to look at it, others might develop it further for their own interest. The bottom line is, we can not continue with this building as it is for the actual costs that are involved in it. I am not a treasurer or an accountant. I look at the figures and I realise the difficulty we have. The question of whether we rent or buy a building that is something we have to look at very carefully. We have to look at what we have to spend on your behalf, the next 12 months will be extremely difficult we can't do it alone and don't want constant animosity and mistrust between us we want you to work with us. If we are going to work together the outcome will be something hopefully you also will be satisfied with and hopefully in 12 months time I will be here looking at a more positive picture for you all. What we are trying to do here is get you all to accept you have to be involved, we want responsible representatives to work with us on a regular basis and want the issues discussed and want to advise you. We have to make a start. Questions have been asked today that have been asked on two or three occasions you are not happy with the answers we know that and have difficulties ourselves. What I want to say and I say it from the heart, I am getting very dispirited with this constant mistrust between you and the Trustees. I don't know how we are going to break this barrier down. Let's make this a start, come up with names and the groups you want involved so when we get together at least we have put forward something we can build on. Put names forward of people who will be Trustees with us, we would love to welcome you on board and get a better understanding; someone coming forward on that basis who will accept the responsibility and come on board with us and possibly you will listen more to them than us; you will identify more with them. So please work with us. Let's move forward. Let's arrange something of a more positive nature and have some of the people sitting out here sitting in front of us giving us their ideas contributing making the suggestions allow us an opportunity to think carefully about whether they are feasible or not and if they are we move forward with them. If not we tell you why, but we really have to move forward. I understand there is a lot of personal interest. There may be selfish interest in groups of individuals, I can understand that. I don't want to be standing up having another discussion in a fortnight or three weeks time when we are still talking about the same issues. We are not as speedy or quick as we could be sometimes, it has to change and we have to make sure what we are doing is phased in and you are advised on a regular basis and the only way we can do it is by getting you to agree and being involved in those newsletters or communications. When are we going to start? It's with you to put forward those individuals and groups and as fast as you do it, we will arrange another meeting and deal with these issues.

Alan Bennett: Talking with Roland (Hilton), are we going to be together or separate (referring to Loughborough and Leicester).
Kevin Watts: Together.

Austin Reeves: I want to make three points, the first is the fraud. We really do have to be careful, fraud is the wrong word to be using. We do have everything audited, they are independent, outside auditors, not part of Action Deafness, they are independent and really must check everything very carefully to make sure it's right. They follow the law and make sure we follow the law, so we have to accept the audited accounts when they are signed that they are correct. So we don't talk about fraud. Maybe how the money is being used perhaps, but not fraud. The second point, Colin got up here and I could see from having been involved in the last three months the difficulty has been one of communication. I think it's right that people have discussions, it's the link up between people who are making decisions. It seems to be decisions are only made by Trustees and I think it's important for the community and the Trustees to try to aim for decisions to be made jointly, but the Trustees need to check everything. Making sure it's a joint decision, that's important. I think if we do that the problems will be solved. The third point I want to make is about the move. Are we really talking about the new place? I think you should be coming and saying what it is you need, what is involved, what games you want to play, is there a bar? You need to get involved in this. It's not really enough to say what you want to see there you need to be involved. I think everything should be in one centre. I don't want to see different set-ups in different places. We want one centre where everyone, young and old, can mix; part of the deaf community is this mixing of age groups. It's important to aim to have everything in one centre so what you want in it you have to say.

David Sly:: What we want to know is what you want. Do the O50s want to meet here or in the new place? We are all worried about the trouble we seem to be in. Buses at night-time; here is perfect, we can get here easily by bus, we don't want to be in the centre of town where there are drunks and so on and we are talking about wanting a private room, about this size, Action Deafness say we may have to share it with other businesses, renting rooms out if you like; as long as we can use it on a Wednesday afternoon and Wednesday evening. Action Deafness have to think about business that's understandable but we are all worried about Wednesday afternoons, they would all come in and want to have bingo and there are things set up ready and a storage space in which to keep them. The youth club want storage space for all their things so really it's a room that can be used by different groups. Some talked about wanting access to snooker tables, maybe that's a bit expensive, we don't know. Pool can be put away somewhere else so people can use the room. I think it's right we don't want to be too far out or too close to the centre of town. Other ideas, some are talking about wanting sports so hearing people can rent from us, a keep fit place, all that sort of thing. We need to get up and say what you want.
Kevin Watts: At the next meeting we can talk about how much the building is worth and where we move to.

Ray Hocking: We still want to know where the money was spent and how it has been spent and how Action Deafness has been run down. Maybe we could have lived another two or three years on the funds we had before.
Kevin Watts: The money has gone anyway but if you want to check you can check on the website. The last couple of years of accounts are there on the website and you are free to have a look.

Carol Hammond: I went on a sponsored walk in August last year, there were six of us and we raised some money. Where should that money go?
Kevin Watts: Is it a donation? Thank you.

Kathy Walters: Could you not sell half of the building and keep the other half instead of moving?
Kevin Watts: That certainly could be considered.

Emma Fountain: There are two points I want to make the first being that you mentioned about getting everyone's suggestions for what we want in the new building. Can I suggest that people give that to the Trustees so that they have got it there ready for the next meeting.
Kevin Watts: Brilliant idea. We can do that now.
Emma Fountain: The second point is about the financial issues that are facing the charity. I want to know what other possible solutions have been considered, apart from selling the building to be able to obtain necessary funds to continue the charity going forward. If we sell the building and utilise those funds to continue to run the charity, that's going to last three, four, maybe five years. If we are not buying another building we will end up in a worse situation than we are now because as well as having no money for the charity there will be no assets.
Colin Henson: Yes we looked at other options, we looked at letting part of the building below which required refurbishment and we have looked at trying to promote the rooms and things of that nature, with some limited success but time is not on our side. From my own basic knowledge, it would be the easiest thing in the world to say we will keep the building open and continue to pursue these other options. Sadly the fabric of the building and the running costs take a great chunk of money. We need to find and set aside each and every year the actual running costs for the services we provide also need a growing level of income and if the level of income is not being generated, then what we are doing is taking out of our reserves and the reserves are being depleted. So what we are trying to do is to stop that haemorrhaging of money to slow it down and stop it completely and be at a break even at some point in the next two to three years and then profit making so we can pour money back into it. We have looked at other options and the consensus of opinion taken by the Trustees is that we can not continue to put money into the building and see it gradually eroding away in terms of the fabric and the finances we have. When we looked at the options one of the things we had to identify is whether we could sustain the building in its present form and the question is put ‘can we not sort of cut it in half?' That is something which we were looking at 12 months ago when we looked at letting out the building. We are losing people that are already in the building and it's attracting the right sort of people Leicester city has got more office space than anybody can fill for the next five or ten years so you can just imagine what they are looking for in terms of facilities, in the same way we are looking at facilities. Somebody came up here and argued about what we are looking for, about parking, accessibility, safety, and all those sort of things and yes we have that to a greater degree here and if we try to do something the same, we can't sustain it any longer and that decision that was taken and has taken a lot of heartfelt searching. If we can identify it I am sure the Treasurer will be only too pleased to assist in this to explain to you in some sort of matrix or understandable form how much it has cost us over the last three years in sustaining this building and how we have over the last two years reduced the deficit but not to the extent we wanted. The income is just not out there at the moment not to the extent we need.

Question: What happened to the people who go to the Church. We will lose the church if we go somewhere else.
David Mumford: As I understand it we are committed to retaining a relationship. I have been involved in the discussions with the Diocese but I am not able to say what the conclusions are; the Archdeacon will make the final decisions in relation to what happens to the Church and the congregation. I understand he is reviewing all of the options.
Comment: A lot of people rely on going to the Church here if they go to any other church it means they have to get people to sign for them. They rely on this church.
David Mumford: Absolutely. In our discussions with Diocese that's been part of what we have talked about and clearly the Archdeacon has taken those things into consideration. The review has been carried out by the Diocese we have not been involved.
Comment: We need to know about it; it's a big thing for the people who are in this Deaf Mission, it's part of a bond for everyone here.
David Mumford: Clearly at some point an announcement will have to be made by the Diocese as to what is going to happen when that is I don't know.
Elaine Loydall: I can't clarify a lot at this stage but to say I think it was at the end of July various people participated in a review, with the Archdeacon and another Chaplain from a different kind of sector ministry. I understand that the document has been seen by Bishops Council but it is certainly has not got back to deaf church members here or in fact anybody who was involved in the review which is probably a bit late to be doing that really. I have raised it with the Bishop that at least the people that were part of the review need to have it fed back to them and obviously a wider group within the deaf community beyond that point.
Karen Sly: The Church Diocese have pulled out of the Trusteeship. Maybe it's worth making that clear to everybody maybe it's a good time to explain what it means.
David Mumford: I don't wish to be awkward about this but it seems to me that the Diocese need to be making those statements and not me on their behalf. They agreed they would change the relationship with Action Deafness which they have done and I think it's up to them to make the statement to substantiate that change in relationship. I can, on your behalf, express your concern to the Archdeacon about wanting to know more in terms of both the relationship with Action Deafness and indeed to pick up the other point about what is going to happen to the Church and it may be that the Archdeacon or his representative or someone could come to one of the future meetings to say what is going to happen. I can extend the invitation.
Karen Sly: A lot of issues that have happened in the past and things changing and not everybody is being informed. It's this that causes confusion and skepticism and lack of trust.
David Mumford: I understand that; the difficulty is that the people who are key, in this case the Archdeacon, needs to be saying the words not me I am not party to it. I will give you a commitment that I will write to him and say we have had this meeting and that you expressed concern and wanted to know more both about the relationship of Action Deafness on what's going to happen in terms of the Church and the future. ACTION: DAVID MUMFORD

Austin Reeves: Talking about the deaf Church it seems that the Bishop or Diocese are saying that in the future it may be that the deaf Church will be based in a hearing Church and become part of that. It seems to be what they are saying about integration; it means the Church here will close and integrate into a hearing Church I think deaf people want their own church services. David has said he will ask the Archdeacon or someone from the Diocese to come here. I think it's important they should so we can tell them how we feel. I don't think we should ask them please tell them come to the next meeting.

Comment: I understand when Colin is saying he has been a Trustee for two years and expressed his view and I know it's now 2010 and looking back to 2008, 2009 whatever let's sweep it under the carpet. It's gone. Let's look forward not back and carry on arguing. This is what Colin was saying he opened his heart to us we saw that he wants to work with us and wants to go back to the Trustees to see Action Deafness and the Community working together, a triangle, having that relationship. If you are not sure, ask David Sly: and work together so for 2011 let's make it better. Austin Reeves came up with three points; fine we need to look forward, not back at the problems. Let's look forward. We know the problems with money, we know we have to move to a new building but maybe we can do things like set up a business, maybe a café. I know it's difficult. If you are a charity you need to use the money; you don't have any money coming in for the building, you need to use the money for the project you are setting up. Maybe if we have a cafe or get the money from that hairdressers, you never know you could get a shave and get paid for that. Action Deafness Ltd means business. Maybe we should look at more businesses to bring in more money so we don't lose the money entirely. So Action Deafness Ltd, the business, should be looking at it. We have only half an hour left. I think you know that we are saying what we want in the building, it's got to be big enough for 200 people for bingo, a bar and whatever we decide we want, the youth centre, pool centre plus maybe a garden for young people to play volleyball or kick a football around or the deaf community could use it for a barbecue. People have said they want a car park, older people need to be out of the town centre area; we understand why and make sure there are plenty of buses so they can get in and out. We have half an hour let's set down ideas; some are good some won't be so good but let's do that in the next half an hour so in three weeks time when we have another meeting we have something to work on. I know the deaf Church needs to be worked on, deaf people need to get married, Easter, Christmas, it would be good to get the Bishop or somebody from the Diocese to come down and talk about it. We don't want it integrated. We fall asleep in hearing services and we can't understand them. It would be good if we can have the services in our sign language.

Comment: Going back to what people want, obviously they want what they have got now. If we move to another place what's to say we are not going to be in a worse mess than ever? We are taking the same baggage with us as we have got here. What good is it going to do us to move?
Colin Henson: I thought we had actually explained what has led us into this situation. We are hoping that by finding new accommodation for you we should be able to run a more effective and efficient organisation without the constant drain on our reserves and finances. You can only spend what you have got in your purse or wallet; we have not got a flexible friend, we could spend if we had but we would go into deeper debt so I can't put it any more simply than that. We have to take some dramatic action to save the money disappearing. We know there was a reserve, that reserve has gone down and has been going down considerably not just for the last two or three years but for more years and the accounts will show this. OK, you shake your head, we have already had the accounts approved and audited which show you the reserves have been drawn off. Now, we have also said on many occasions the very fact we have had these assets, this pot of gold if you like, has limited some of the actions we were able to take. If you have money you are not a charity, a charity is a non-profit making organisation which is why we have set up a limited company as it was said at the last meeting. You had a copy of what the accountant said to explain it; that was an avenue that was initiated by the Trustees to try to generate income which was not affected by any application we would make to the Charities Commission for support and they are saying “but you have money, don't come with your begging bowl to us we have seen your money and seen your reserves”. It's a sad state of affairs but you almost have to have nothing in hand before they will look seriously at helping you and giving you this assistance. A lot of things have been extremely successful; some of the initiatives and grants we have been getting from the Lottery, these are funds given for a specific initiative to grow the services within the community, in different parts of the community, in different areas of the community. That is something that's given to us to use, not just for the building, not just for the Action Deafness sports and social club or any of the other organisations that is provided by Action Deafness. We want to continue that. I constantly recognise your concerns and I feel very strongly about those concerns, so please trust us. We want you to trust us and I know we have to work very hard to gain that trust back. We want you to see we are working extremely hard to provide you with a future. I don't want to be here in two years time and say it's come to nothing. I want to look back in five and ten years time and say what we did was right and we are growing services. I am not a politician or electioneering, it's what I feel strongly that this needs to be done and I think that Andrew made the point, let us move forward in 2010, not ignoring the history and tradition that goes with the organisation, and your feelings, we don't want to do any of that, I know you think we are but we don't. We just have a difficult job to do so David if you are the Chairman, you made the point about groups of people who want to be involved so let's be working together you, say can we have what we have here, we can put them down and see if they are feasible and work towards trying to accommodate it. Was it Emma who said if you have things you think about let the Trustees know. We are going to have a meeting next Tuesday, the majority of the meeting will be looking at the issues, updating ourselves as to how far we have got. We are identifying how we can get the best price for the building so we have more money to spend in the future for you. Where is it going to be, the location, we have discussed and recognise the need for it to be accessible and safe and that you want things like a shared car park, our car park. We had apprehensions but this is good and if we can improve it we will. We don't want to go backwards.

Steve Crump: I have had a career in the voluntary sector for over 30 years raising money as Director of Fundraising for a number of charities and also as Chief Executive. Over that period of time I have raised probably £28M and £1M of that almost has been in the last year here. I have been working to say to the Government, community Local Government, this is what Action Deafness is not doing: providing services for children, services for older people, those experiencing acquired hearing loss and so on. We do nothing for people that are black or Asian, that is getting a response, hence our parenting problem, hence the new BME project. I am in negotiations for substantial funding to work with children and older people. The financial difficulties the charity has experienced in the past are just a blip. The income is going up and a lot of money spent in the past has been spent on maintaining facilities for you, you have not had to pay for the building, for a minibus or petrol, so when you have used it no it's been free.

Comment: So Action Deafness is changing, new income is coming in, new opportunities which involve you, there are jobs for you as well and it's opportunities.

Comment: We need you to be part of the equation so work with us to give a truly integrated response to the needs of people in Leicester, Leicestershire and the East Midlands. I am a member of the staff team and we are sick of these tensions we want them to go away and work constructively and productively.

Comment: Because we have to move forward together we can make a difference, a real tangible difference. The other day, through the parenting programme, I met a young girl with no language, ostracised, marginalized by her family who didn't know what to do, how to work with her or address her needs. The parenting programme is doing that. That's work you don't see and work we want you to be part of. We are a community that communicates and that's about listening and communicating to and from, so come on work with us, we can do this together.

Eric Waweru: Just to add, the reason we have to sell the building, we cannot do all that has been said. We want to do in the next six or seven months because we do not have the reserves to enable us to meet that need. The whole idea of selling the building is to get some money fast to enable us to have funds to be able to continue operating which is very important because part of what last year's audit report said was the fact that Action Deafness has a problem. It's a going concern but we are probably not going to be able to operate in the next six or seven months so to erase that particular problem and show other people we are working with it and addressing some of the issues, selling the building will enable us to release some of the money to help us but that does not mean all the money that is going to be raised from the building is going to be put in reserves and then used up the way the previous reserves have been. That is not the intention at all. We realise we have two issues here, we have the short-term issue which is we sell the building which take us along and some of the activities we are engaging with bringing new revenue at the same time, we then need to look at the needs of the community. We may not be able, in the next six months, to address each and every wish put by the people here tonight, but what we can do is either have a process where we move to a leased property for a while and most of the money we come and say that money is not going to be touched at all that is for our next building so we set it aside or where we are looking at appropriate accommodation for all the groups and that is a way forward as well. I don't think we should be looking at it as one move we could have it as a staggered move where we will release money to enable us to be seen to be able to operate and therefore engage with our partners and the Local Authorities and other people who are supporting us otherwise if we don't do that some of the contracts we want to get into, people will say “why should I enter a contract with you when your auditor says you cannot operate in a few months' time”. We need to address that risk and part of the selling the building is addressing the risk. It's not releasing money and suddenly spending it the way previous reserves have been, I think that is not a wise thing to do so my point of view releasing the money is a two step thing: release the money to operate to enable us to continue operating and secure some of the money for long term needs of the whole community in terms of getting the actual property that we enable us to address needs of other groups that is how I look at it.

David Sly:: Like Steve Crump had said there was £1M in a year, well done. But the Deaf Club needs £58,000 for one year to keep it going. You've got £1M in couldn't you donate any? I do agree with what you were saying Eric, on how we need to do that, what we all need to do is, if you sell this building, are you telling us first or are you going to sell it then say we have already sold it and bought somewhere and the deaf community say or are you going to sell it? How much is it? So deaf people know they are involved in it before the sale goes through. Where you are moving to, if deaf people say they don't like that place, it's not appropriate, so we are involved in it, as Eric says maybe rent on a temporary basis. We can accept that and move to somewhere better that sounds good. I am really happy with what your saying we are concerned six months is the deadline. It feels as though it's a big decision that has to be taken. Some people are saying can we postpone it for a year or 18 months and you are saying no we can't do that. So you all know that's it's too short, that's how people feel about it. The actions are happening too quickly and talking about moving, if you tell us first that's what we want. Tell us first before we have to move
Kevin Watts: Part of the communication will be updates we are giving out regularly; what offers we receive, how much they will be. You will get regular updates fed back.

Austin Reeves: Two points I am confused over: what you said Eric, you said the auditor said you had to sell it within six months. Is it the auditor that said that? The financial report doesn't say that. What do you mean by the auditor saying that? Can we have clarification?

Eric Waweru: The Auditor did not say we need to sell the building. The Auditor said at the very end, there is what is called a ‘going concern' clause and what he says is that there is a serious risk and if Action Deafness continues in it present format, it is not going to be able to continue operating. If you go to the last accounts he has said that very, very clearly that there is a serious risk we are not going to be able to continue operating as an entity. He is not saying we have to sell the building but the whole idea as an organisation, what we are trying to address is what we can do to make sure we guarantee ourselves, that we are going to be able to continue operating in the next year. The auditor says if we don't sort out our financial circumstances we are not going to be operating next year. So if we look and ask where are our assets? The biggest asset we have is the building. It's a question of looking at our assets to enable ourselves to operate in the next year. That is part of the strategy.

Jyoshna: You have said the aim for 2012/13 is to be into profit, that means in this year and next year we will still be running at a deficit. That's a real concern for me. You are going to continue to have deficits running over the next two years. If we move this year we should be able to sort out having no deficit for the following year.
Colin Henson: We are part way into the next year. We have 2009/10 costs already committed. We are part way through and will be part way through year 2010/11 where there will still be ongoing costs, as a result we know there will be a deficit for the year 2010.11. I am talking as a lay person, there may be a further deficit but we are nowhere near the existing levels so in 2011, possibly 2012, it will have a very small influence on our overall stability. You can't just suddenly stop it, so what we are saying is the quicker we can get our strategy and plans into action the sooner we can reduce that deficit. I am hopeful that in 2011/12 we will be in a break even position. I can't guarantee it, we don't know what the current 12 months and the future is going to hold and the hurdles we will have to overcome. There will be committed costs in order to satisfy the requirements we want to achieve with you and establish that the community in new premises or alternative premises and that's going to cost something and it has got to be accounted for. Initially we will spend a little bit more and hopefully safeguard a longer term future than we have at the moment. What Eric did say is that we are in a critical situation and if we don't take action, if we continue to haemorrhage cash away at the same level we have done even with steps we have taken, then in 12 or 18 months time we will be in extremely serious difficulties. So the inevitable is now and Andrew is quite right, we can keep going back to this situation as to why we have got there, we learn from this situation. We are not happy we are at this situation but we want to say we are now moving forward and the faster we can move forward the faster we can reassure you and safeguard the community. Austin said really the same things so this has come from two different sides of the hall. Moving forward is the only sensible way to achieve what we all want to achieve.

Comment: Now we are getting the picture now we are understanding. We didn't have that before, it was a communication thing. Now we have the communication that's better. It's important. The deaf community need to understand and see there may not be a future. We need to be clear and know we need to move. We understand there is a problem with finances. What about Social Services? The social workers? The deaf community still need them. Where are they going or are we all going together?

Colin Henson: With regard to Social Services, we are concerned that they have their own plan of action which is from a central plan of action and of course that if they move right they move and take the revenue with them and that's another chunk of money we have lost and that's going to happen irrespective of what we do anyway if there is some opportunity to give us the same sort of support you have had here and they are willing to do so it's something we need to open discussion with them for so we maintain the contact.

Karen Sly: Could we invite them to one of our meetings like we are going to invite the Archdeacon?.

Colin Henson: Yes, if it needs someone like that to come along then they will be able to tell you why they are taking these decisions and these decisions are being told to us, we are not party to the decisions but we have to suffer the consequences of those decisions and try to put it over in a way that you accept.

Andrew Neal: I know you've talked about Social Services and hopefully we will have a centre where everyone can be there, not spread out all over the city and hopefully you can have that discussion. Likewise with the Church have it all in one centre and everyone is satisfied and we are happy with the lot. Steve was talking about raising £1M for different projects, BME children, families, it's really good getting the funding in for that. Now I'm thinking, the other plan, the business side of things, you are looking at care taking of the building making sure for example maybe if I was a director working for a deaf group maybe doing painting/decorating, woodwork, electricians fitting things, getting people out, bringing in income, it could look after the building and the CEO carries on doing the charitable side of things. We could look at the building for the deaf community and keep it going, as he said the money coming into the charity is decreasing and we've said it's £58,000 and it's going down and if it continues it will close. We don't want that. If we look at it as a business, generate income, maintain the life of the building, the future can be better. If we look at different businesses, cafe hairdressers, something to generate revenue, something to think about in preparation.

Kevin Watts thanked everybody for attending the meeting which he said had been very positive.

The next meeting will take place:

9 February 2010
7.00 pm
Action Deafness, Welford Road.

Meetings will take place every three weeks thereafter.